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Evil bonuses lead students astray

COMMENTS

Most of my friends went into teaching, charity, consultancy, PR, journalism etc, turned off banking by the perception of long hours et al. 4 years on, I certainly made the right choice, my quality of life is by far superior to my peers. My children will go to £24k/yr boarding schools, theirs will be sent to state grammars, giving them a significant disadvantage for networking.  Read all comments »

Mervyn King has weighed in on the bonus debate. The guvnor says big payouts have encouraged too many talented people to squander their lives in banking when they could have been doing something more constructive instead.

King made his comments to the Treasury Select Committee.

According to the Telegraph, King says young people look at City compensation packages and think they “dominate almost any other type of career ... It's not a very attractive situation that such a high proportion of our talented young people naturally look at the City and think it is the only place to work in. It shouldn't be. It should be one of the places, but not the only one.”

Talented yoof confirm Merv’s fears. One Cambridge student confesses that he might think of doing a medical PhD or going into the voluntary sector were it not for the fact that he’s leaving university with a £15k overdraft and needs the cash.

“During my gap year I worked at Pizza Hut and earned £200 pounds a week. As a summer intern in an investment bank I’ll be earning £700 pounds a week. There’s no comparison,” he says.

“Put bluntly, yes, people do go into investment banking for the money,” confirms Gordon Chesterman, head of the Cambridge University Careers Service. “But we do work hard to promote a wide variety of other careers.”

Bonuses may not need to be reformed to put students off – mass redundancies should be a more effective deterrent.

However, they don’t seem to have had an impact yet. Martin Birchall, director of High Fliers Research, a company which monitors top students’ career aspirations, says a record number of students want to go into investment banking this year: “Despite all the problems in the City, it's still as desirable as ever.”

Are you overpaid? Should bonuses be reformed? Have your say below.

COMMENTS

al, Student,  Sun 04 May 08

Can someone post the compensation packages  for the different IB roles? I mean which roles have the best compensation packages and which have the lowest?
thanks

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AL, Canary Wharf, Derivatives,  Mon 05 May 08

For al, Student:

To the best of my knowledge,

1) Prop Trading desk
2) Trading Desk
3) Sales
4) Quants
5) Structuring
6) Market Risk

They all have their pay-offs, but my advice is to stick to your interest,otherwise you'll find it tough. Generally Analysts will recieve £35-45, Associate £50-60, VP £65-95, Director £90-115, MD £110-150.

Remember, the aim of the game is in the bonus. The pay-off is fitting into what suits your interest and ability.

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AL, Canary Wharf, Derivatives,  Mon 05 May 08

For Henry:

I agree with most of what you are saying. We all go into the industry with more or less the same ambition.

A little modesty along the way would help ease the bad rep us bankers get. I got my BSc from the LSE and the I did my MSc from Stanford yet I could never feel good about pontificating about status or earnings. It seems that you have a decent education but not a trace of fortitude with regard to others. Not really a lesson you want to be passing to your children, regardless of their 24k tuition fees.

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Henry, FX & Money Markets,  Tue 06 May 08

AL (Canary Wharf), you think Structurers get paid less than Salespeople? Hilarious.

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spot n forward, FX & Money Markets,  Tue 06 May 08

On the comp issue, it is very difficult to put together an accurate "one size fits all" table as above. The problem is that there are huge disparities across asset classes, and (in the case of sales) client type. Very broadly speaking i agree with AL above; across the market top prop traders will indeed earn the most - they can get 10-20% of profits, and some books can make $50m and much more.

However, top sales people can too earn very large sums, and i'd agree with AL that their total comp can be in excess of that made by people on structuring desks. Important job that structuring desks do, the issue here is that their "PnL contribution" is often difficult to attribute; one could argue that a particularly profitable trade was more down to the sales skills of the coverage person (this is often the case). Additionally, once a new product has been created by a structuring desk, it become the proprietary (intellectual)property of the bank, with less ongoing incentive to compensate structureres. On the other hand, departing salespeople can often take large volumes of flow with them to a rival house, and compensation often reflects this, almost in retainer fashion.

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Henry, FX & Money Markets,  Tue 06 May 08

Very interesting spot n forward. Where I am, for comp, traders and structurers are regarded pretty much on par (except for a hardcore few top traders). An average structurer makes a lot more than an average salesman, a good structurer much more than a good salesman. Yes anomalies exist, but Structuring is a very hot area, where many of the most ambitious, numerically talented grads choose to go over trading.

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AL, Canary Wharf, Derivatives,  Tue 06 May 08

Henry, I would say that going on total comp, the sales guys make more. I have a ghost PnL of over 10 million EURO, but I can be very sure that the sales guys I assist make more based upon the fact that they are principally responsible for revenue generation.

Don't get me wrong, I think as a structurer I have a more interesting and rigorous job but I have no doubt the sales force end up with more by years end.

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spot n forward, FX & Money Markets,  Tue 06 May 08

AL - agree with you entirely. Where i work, the structuring desk work harder, longer hours, and don't get the benefits associated with client entertainment that the sales desk do. And from what i can see, notwithstanding the senior/management-level structurers, sales staff get paid more like-for-like.

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spot n forward, FX & Money Markets,  Tue 06 May 08

agree with you Henry though that structuring is a fashionable area, and that it is increasingly attracting top graduate talent. additionally, in many asset classes, the sales-structuring distinction is becoming blurred. the best salespeople often act as their own structuring resource, and the top structurers develop client relationships of their own. this is particularly prevalent in corporate FX where much of the flow is now moving onto trading platforms, with (notwithstanding EM/long tenor/very large trades) little interaction needed on vanilla business.

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blagh, Investment Banking / M & A,  Tue 06 May 08

"My children will go to £24k/yr boarding schools, theirs will be sent to state grammars, giving them a significant disadvantage for networking."

Nowt wrong with the local comp. Quite happy with my £180k bonus (after 3 yrs IB experience).

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