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Evil bonuses lead students astray

COMMENTS

Most of my friends went into teaching, charity, consultancy, PR, journalism etc, turned off banking by the perception of long hours et al. 4 years on, I certainly made the right choice, my quality of life is by far superior to my peers. My children will go to £24k/yr boarding schools, theirs will be sent to state grammars, giving them a significant disadvantage for networking.  Read all comments »

Mervyn King has weighed in on the bonus debate. The guvnor says big payouts have encouraged too many talented people to squander their lives in banking when they could have been doing something more constructive instead.

King made his comments to the Treasury Select Committee.

According to the Telegraph, King says young people look at City compensation packages and think they “dominate almost any other type of career ... It's not a very attractive situation that such a high proportion of our talented young people naturally look at the City and think it is the only place to work in. It shouldn't be. It should be one of the places, but not the only one.”

Talented yoof confirm Merv’s fears. One Cambridge student confesses that he might think of doing a medical PhD or going into the voluntary sector were it not for the fact that he’s leaving university with a £15k overdraft and needs the cash.

“During my gap year I worked at Pizza Hut and earned £200 pounds a week. As a summer intern in an investment bank I’ll be earning £700 pounds a week. There’s no comparison,” he says.

“Put bluntly, yes, people do go into investment banking for the money,” confirms Gordon Chesterman, head of the Cambridge University Careers Service. “But we do work hard to promote a wide variety of other careers.”

Bonuses may not need to be reformed to put students off – mass redundancies should be a more effective deterrent.

However, they don’t seem to have had an impact yet. Martin Birchall, director of High Fliers Research, a company which monitors top students’ career aspirations, says a record number of students want to go into investment banking this year: “Despite all the problems in the City, it's still as desirable as ever.”

Are you overpaid? Should bonuses be reformed? Have your say below.

COMMENTS

Anonymous,  Tue 06 May 08

to AL, Canary Wharf, Derivatives,

thanks for the data. But where does an Analyst fit? I mean the role of analyzing balance and business.

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spot n forward, FX & Money Markets,  Wed 07 May 08

Anonymous... you've lost me?

AL is talking about roles in banking to begin with (as in areas of the bank) and thereafter gives colour on approximate salaries for front office professionals in such roles. "Analyzing balance and business" sounds more like a strategy type roll, which would be less remunerative. "Analyst" in the context of which AL speaks refers to someone with aprrox 0-3 years experience.

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Anonymous, Student,  Wed 07 May 08

Could someone tell me how salaries for analysts in research compare to those in structuring or sales?
And what are the key differences between structurers and quants?

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spot n forward, FX & Money Markets,  Wed 07 May 08

salaries for most front office areas will be broadly similar. trading, sales & structuring may earn SLIGHTLY more in base that research, but it's nominal. AL's rundown of level-apprx GBP salary is accurate. all bar snr (snr) management earn less than 150k apprx BASE, but for successful bankers salary is unimportant (some would disagree, for instance in terms of getting leverage on a mortgage) but the fact of the matter is that bonuses, after 2-3 years tend to outstrip salary. it can be several multiples. this is where research professionals would tend to fare less well. total comp for a decent VP in a top tier IB sales/trading/structuring would be 90 base + 180 to 450 bonus. This would vary from bank to bank, asset class to asset class, and is hugely market-condition sensitive. For top performers the latter number could well be larger, though contrary to what the press would have you believe, there aren't that many working in non-snr mgmt ib roles / hedge funds / pe partners that are earning seven figure USD bonuses plus.

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Henry, FX & Money Markets,  Wed 07 May 08

Anonymous Student, at analyst level, you can make more if you're an outstanding research analyst than a poor structurer. But overall your typical structurer and salesperson will get a fair bit more than a research analyst, but within this sort of range -

1st Year analyst: £36-40k base, £30-55k bonus
2nd Year analyst: £42-45k base, £70-150k bonus

The £150k is only if you're an outstanding structurer, in a small group with huge P&L, realistically a decent salesperson or structurer should expect £100-125k at the end of their 2nd year.

And then you get moved to 1st Year Associate on £55-62k base and £150-250k bonus.

Obviously this is during normal periods, if you're at UBS or Citi over 2008-09 divide all the above numbers by 4, lol.

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MI, Accounting,  Wed 07 May 08

MI - I wake up later than 5.30am, and work less than 60 hour weeks. Another stupid stereotype.

Henry--when it comes to your bonus you are all numbers when it comes to your conditions you are all of a sudden "more" and "less." You figure out why (at 5:45 :-).

Why are you raving about Boris? He is in public service which according to you is equivalent to a loser. How does that make you look?

All in all you seem confused but that's OK--you can always try and get professional help (not likely on this site though). Good idea to start the thread--people like AL and Tarquin got to post meaningful comments.

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fxo man, Trading,  Wed 07 May 08

MI - you appear to be addressing yourself? All those hours crunching accounting numbers have numbed your mind...

Re-reading i think that you meant to use quotation marks? Trying to belittle something that Henry wrote, perhaps?

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Henry, FX & Money Markets,  Wed 07 May 08

MI, you're making an absolute prat of yourself. Once again you make a pile of incorrect assumptions. No wonder you weren't good enough to get into banking and had to settle for Big 4 mediocrity.

I don't need to say what time I wake up or how many hours I work, the fact is they're both substantially different to your assertions. No, I don't wake up at 5.45am either. Or 6am. Or 6.15am. Or 6.30am.

And where did I claim that anyone in public service is a loser? There's not a clear private/public cut here is there - a Prime Minister or Mayor of London is not a loser. An accountant not good enough to get into front office banking clearly is.

You have truly failed in life.

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MI, Accounting,  Wed 07 May 08

Henry, don't try to gauge what I've settled for cause you'll be off the mark.

The fact you wake up late makes you a lucky exception or a liar (and since you said you don't care about f***ing up others to achieve your goals lies won't be an issue for you either).

You said yourself you consider ppl who went into journalism, teaching etc losers and Boris is a former journalist too. Or do they stop being losers once elected to a higher position?

Thank you for your free life assessment that made me laugh at the end of the working day :-) Later in the evening you might start to produce even funnier outputs. Will check them out tomorrow cause I'm going home now :-)

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LH, Sales & Marketing,  Wed 07 May 08

The numbers seem mind boggling.  I'm having a hard time understanding how people that young can be adding that much value (apparently if shareholders tolerate it).

The world I work in (asset management institutional sales in the US) is very different...  The mantra here is all about patience.

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